Mazda in financial trouble

[Zcootz]

I always thought that Uncle Henry Ford pioneered the mass production of automobiles. Without a doubt the Japanese refined the process but so did the Germans. It's easy to pick a brand such as Toyota and quote their reliability, I can do the same with Mercedes and their history of safety innovation

[93_Clubman]

If you look at an old Excel, you may hate everything about them but they will still work themselves into the ground.

So much so I believe, that the rally club folks are using them.

[deviant]

If you look at an old Excel, you may hate everything about them but they will still work themselves into the ground.

So much so I believe, that the rally club folks are using them.

Yep there is a series / class dedicated to them. There is also the Excel Cup circuit series.

A chap I work with bought one of those bubble shaped Excels brand new when they first came it. The odo has ticked over to zero once and is half way there again. It starts on the button no matter how hot or cold it is, doesnt use any oil and the only thing that ever let him down is the clock which was replaced under warrenty.

[hks_kansei]

Meanwhile, AvtoVaz, the parent company of Lada, made a US$123.5 Million profit in 2010.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/ ... D020110824

[Mr Morlock]

Henry Ford and mass production is a different subject. You can pick the Japanese manufacturers as the benchmark for quality because they were way in front of the pack and still are. The Germans are without doubt good engineers and clever people but it was Japan that led the way on "zero defects" - the difference is that the Japanese did not just talk about it it they did it. People who doubt these things can do some reading on the subject. I knew German engineers who always joked about BMW and Mercedes saying that they were very good because they were built twice. Toyota systems are extraordinary- formidable attention to detail and a commitment to every aspect of the business. Ford as an example copied some of the systems and certainly finally introduced kanban many years after the Japanese were practising it all levels. Australian co's and German ones had huge warehouses of stock that they often did not want but not so in Japan- no space or acceptance of waste.

The proof of the quality of Japanese cars is everywhere to see and the JD Power etc is testament to it.

Insofar as UK car manufacturing is concerned I am not referring to cottage industries which have little impact on the world stage. UK no longer has its famous marques- just transplanted foreign owned companies ( including Japanese makers) though of course that is much better than no manufacturing.

[pcmx5]

[quote="Mr Morlock"] Toyota systems are extraordinary- formidable attention to detail and a commitment to every aspect of the business.

That is an historical statement, where have you been while Toyota has been rocked by the most signifigant series of recalls, some with serious safety implications, that they have ever experienced.If you understood the Japanese culture you would know that for the Company chairman to apologise as he had it is a huge loss of face and honour for him and the company..
Historically the Japanese have been master of quality but lately that has not always been the case,and they have become slighly stagnant in their thinking and have recognised the need to become more innovative.The good thing is that they have the wherewithall to do just that.

The Koreans are on a march, those old Excels are bulletproof mechanically and you can soon learn to accept crappy plastics and trim materials ansd lesser ride handling balance when the thing is so relaible.Now they are lifting in the areas that they were behind they are certainly worth a look.I participate in many car purchases each year and the fact that a car is from Korea does not put me off at all while the surety that used to be implicit in made in Japan is no longer as reassuring.

Peter

[Apu]

Excellent points Peter. I used to snub Korean makes as well (funnily enough...when I had a love affair with Alfas) but they are well past that now. In the past 7 years, I've owned a Kia Carnival and now a Grand Carnival - absolutely the best value people mover at the time.

We had this discussion not so long ago about the Chinese car makers - in that discussion there were the naysayers who said the Chinese wouldn't get beyond deathtraps, some of us said 5-10 years before they built a safe car...and what do you know, they are already testing cars that should pass a 4 or 5 star safety rating. It won't take them long to get to where the Koreans are now.

I believe we are in a world shift now - there are others who are hung up on the traditional brands and continue to move forward but are still looking in the rear view mirrors. Brands aren't what they used to be, and to a large extent, neither is country of manufacture.

We've often heard the broadbrush "I won't buy the made in China crap" statement. Sure, go and buy a Japanese or German brand...guess where the bulk of the components are made? I'm amazed by how people can't seem to get over that.

[95er]

Yep there is a series / class dedicated to them. There is also the Excel Cup circuit series.

A chap I work with bought one of those bubble shaped Excels brand new when they first came it. The odo has ticked over to zero once and is half way there again. It starts on the button no matter how hot or cold it is, doesnt use any oil and the only thing that ever let him down is the clock which was replaced under warrenty.

I bought my '98 Hyundai Excel Twin Cam brand new when I got my P's in High School and almost 14 years later I still use it as my daily. Even though mine has 'only' done 240,000kms, it is only the last few years that the paint on the spoiler, bumper and wheel covers that are starting to fade and there is a crack that is starting to show on the dash. Not bad for a car that's red and out in the sun all the time!

I regularly get 8.2L/100Km and the only thing that has gone wrong in the past were plug leads which were replaced under warranty, the power steering pump and the radiator fan which stopped working the other day. It uses no oil and is still smooth to this day.

I even tried to kill it by changing lanes into a concrete truck. They are stronger than you think...

[Mr Morlock]

no denying Toyota's problems and bad press and recalls but it will be put behind them. Some of it is known to have been overstated. The shock probably was that it happened at all. Many euro cars and US cars were so bad and some still are that it was just taken for granted.

Apu remarked most of the components are made in China but often this was done under the control of Western companies and systems watching carefully to see that no shortcuts were taken.Homegrown Chinese companies rip off everything. There is little doubt we are seeing a lot of substandard products coming out of China albeit cheap ones.

[Bizi]

Has this thread gone way off-topic?

Isn't it supposed to be about Mazda's financial state? I'm personally much more concerned about the (un)likelihood of engineering of new cars in Australia, but I look forward to reading more here about the way forward for Mazda.

More broadly, Japan as an economy needs to show that it has recovered from the effects of its tragic tsunami.

[pcmx5]

[quote="Bizi"]Has this thread gone way off-topic?

Isn't it supposed to be about Mazda's financial state?

Not sure that Mazda's financial state can be discussed without some reference to the competition and the pressures they might bring and the general state of Japanese manufacturing, but will stand to be corrected I'm sure.

Peter.

[Apu]

Sweet Jesus Peter! We must have a psychic connection, haha!

[Bizi]

Not sure that Mazda's financial state can be discussed without some reference to the competition and the pressures they might bring and the general state of Japanese manufacturing, but will stand to be corrected I'm sure.

Peter.

I didn't realise that Mazda's financial state is due to pressures from Hyundai and from Chinese cars, but if these were quantifiably bigger factors than the tsunami-related sales and manufacturing problems, then let us know.

The 'great Chinese cars of the future' thread is interesting enough in its own thread, but discussing how great Chinese products are isn't quite what I thought this thread was about. I thought it somehow related to Mazda's current and future direction in financially tight times.

Educate me, since I seem to have missed the point about Mazda's troubles and how it will affect the next MX5.

[Mr Morlock]

Bizi's partly right- wandering of about China in response to Apu was not quite right.

Still the various comments lead me to at least to check some other source for info- many comments are made from the memory bank. And sorry to sound far too sceptical but some things just have to get checked .

Quoting from a known useful and interesting publication.

"Hyundai's quality has improved to the point where its cars rate alongside Japanese makes and far ahead of their European rivals and well regarded in Western markets. However Hyundais are still well behind the likes of Toyota when it comes to longer tern reliability. The rise of the Chinese car industry also threatens Hyundai's position".

A view on the Excel 1995-00 Quick Summary " A budget priced unreliable death trap" Reliability - "dodgy" How safe DEADLY Overall rating AVOID like the Plague.

Mazda- "chances of survival: good. However there's strength in numbers; in the longer term Mazda may have to merge with another car maker in order to survive" We know how good the 2 the 3 and the 5 are at present.

"Kia is Hyundai's budget wing". "Kia has a reputation of cheap and cheerful cars".
Carnival - Quick summary " cheap and cheerful motoring for families" etc Reliability Dodgy. How safe "Good when fitted with optional side air bags" Overall rating ' not recommended esp wth 2.6 litre engine ( they were forced to replace a significant % of the petrol engines ... to fix chronic head gasket failure.

"Toyota needs to rebuild the quality ethic that led to its greatness; and learn to be humble a noble Japanese trait"

Mazda I hope has a future - it afterall has produced a very significant sports car setting a record for a remarkable vehicle which has done what its designer hoped- how proud those guys must be.

[NitroDann]

Sounds like quotes from the dog and lemon guide, which I cant 100% always agree with.

But point taken.

Also who cares if 3 posts go off topic, seriosuly?

Dann