Falcon four cylinder...Will it sell?

by **OurCognitiveSurplus** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:46 am

hks_kansei wrote:I don't see why there haven't been Diesel Falcons and Commodores for years?

For some reason people here still associate Diesel with tractors, modern diesel engines are as quiet and smooth as their petrol counterpart.

I agree entirely with your point.

However, on my walk to work, whenever I see a BMW, I play the 'i or d' game based on how it sounds (with a peak at the badge to check). Get it right everytime. I'm sure the d drives perfectly - but there's no way it's 'as quiet and smooth'.

by **Mr Morlock** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:02 am

Modern petrol engines are powerful, smooth,flexible, quiet, cheap to service and long lasting. Engines like those in Morris minors etc are long gone. Diesel pumps are often dirty, oily , smelly , slippery and you even hear of people donning gloves for fill up. Diesels do make sense on large vehicles.

The reason why Ford and Holden never used diesel engines in the past for Falcon and Commodore are pretty obvious. Because they had mighty smooth 6 cyl petrol engines which delivered all the necessaries for larger passenger cars including quiet operation and pretty good economy esp on the highway. In other words there was no business model to take good engines with vehicles selling well until recent years.

Replacing an engine means re engineering and all the costs in doing that plus additional cost of sourcing a suitable unit.And what would they have done with the perfectly good 6 cyl engines with the jobs it provided here. Fords engine is still built here and tooling etc is long amortised. Toyota and Nissan as examples offering well priced family sedans Aurion / Maxima and they never offered diesels.

It was a pity it took so long for the diesel to get fitted to the Territory- a 2 odd tonne SUV which of course has a thirst in that format- ie more so than the sedan. Reportedly the 6 cyl diesel came at a good deal for Ford ( apparently not one suitable in the Ford group) - they sure had little money to invest in a relatively low volume mature vehicle.

Deviant remarked "Servicing costs are certainly not more expensive". That contradicts the current knowledge eg check RACV and other sources. Services are more regular for a start. You makes your choice.

Fuel economy testing: test done in 2 parts.
1. Urban cycle- done on rolling dyno on vehicle done at least 3000km. Cold start- acceleration steady, deceleration, idling. Max speed 50kmh distance covered 4 kilometres.
2. Extra urban cycle- done straight after 1 consists smoother phases average speed 63Km/h total distance 7 kilometres.

by **NitroDann** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:24 am

One of morlocks few posts that I 100% agree with. Hes spot on.

Thats no insult either mate, I raely agree 100% with anyone

Dann

by **deviant** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:05 pm

Sorry..I have to disagree again Mr Morlock :mrgreen:

I have not encountered any more mess at the pump than any other petrol station and have never needed gloves to fill up.

My real life experience tells me the RACV website is wrong with regards to servicing.

by GP » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:23 pm

Yes a diesel has always been much cheaper on servicing costs

by **deviant** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:11 pm

ffs do I need to go and dig out a credit card statement?!

by **NitroDann** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:20 pm

A goo ddeisel VS a sh*t car?

Deisels have MUCH more to go wrong. MODERN deisels.

Dann

by **Bizi** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:47 pm

I think that there needs to be a separate discussion thread about hypothetical diesel taxicars and hypothetical sales!

On topic again, what's this 4cyl turbo / gearbox combo like and is a manual version available? For the future ford Capri try #3. NC retrofit.

by **Entice** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:28 pm

Will it sell?
YES.

all too often we make teh assumption that most people care about cars. fact is they dont.

point in case:
Captiva sells lots of units, but is a horrible Car. My dad has one but it was the best at it's (holden employee) pricing point that met his requirements. (7 seater, some towing capacity, and easy to find dealerships)
Cruize sells when it really cannot compete against other cars in same price point. In fact it sells so well they have llimited the employee discount on it.

Anyway,

small engines in big cars is all the rage at the moment, so why not Ford AU?

maybe they'll offer more in manual (doubt it) like europe with big car small engine

oh, and wrt diesels... I have owned 3 currently awaiting the 4th.

why havent ford et all introduced them to aus? well, there's that thing called weight, noise, availability of fuel, and availability of suitable drivetrain.
my Astra CDTi was a ripper. The Saab TTiD even more so. the subaru outback is good, but runs out of puff.. all of these had been tuned, and all ran around in under 8L/100km in town. (astra was doing 6's)

But, they are fun foot flat to the floor, not so much fun around the twisties and flexibility of engine was no where near the petrol counterpart....

wife now is waiting on the Passat to replace the outback. smoother engine, but that's about it...

Website · by **Benny** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:00 pm

Did anyone here see the Top Gear UK show where Jeremy drove an M3 and the Stig drove some 4cyl shitbox around a track?
The Stig was going as hard as he could around the track with Jeremy following right on his tail.

After 10 or so laps, they measured the fuel used by both cars, and the M3 chewed through a lot less fuel than the shitbox.

Quite often, in realworld driving, a small engine in a large car will use more fuel than a large engine in the same car!

by **taminga16** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:38 pm

Benny wrote:Quite often, in realworld driving, a small engine in a large car will use more fuel than a large engine in the same car!

Didn't Mazda do some thing like this with a HJ/ HX holden and a small engine?
Greg.

by **decitex64** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:55 pm

holden VC 1980 1.9lt Starfire 4 cyl
short memories

by **miata** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:00 pm

taminga16 wrote:
Benny wrote:Quite often, in realworld driving, a small engine in a large car will use more fuel than a large engine in the same car!

Didn't Mazda do some thing like this with a HJ/ HX holden and a small engine?
Greg.

Mazda Roadpacer, Rotary, not sure which version. (Google tells me 13B)

by **hks_kansei** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:47 pm

Mazda did do some silly things with the rotary....

Worst was the Parkway Rotary26 Bus...... 2.8 tonnes... and the same 13b as the Roadpacer.

(26 referred to number of seats)

by **lee** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:15 am

Benny wrote:Did anyone here see the Top Gear UK show where Jeremy drove an M3 and the Stig drove some 4cyl shitbox around a track?
The Stig was going as hard as he could around the track with Jeremy following right on his tail.

After 10 or so laps, they measured the fuel used by both cars, and the M3 chewed through a lot less fuel than the shitbox.

I think you might be thinking of the Prius fuel consumption test. You weren't wrong about the shitbox 4cyl thought; they don't get much shitter than the Prius!