Toyota gets ready for a stoush with Mazda...interesting.

by **Hjt** » Thu May 03, 2012 11:49 pm

I must say, If the roadster version has the same gizmos, for less pricing, with more power... it will only hurt Mazda.

Must must make sure the target the right market, whilst retaining existing customers.

Either light and low power, or beef it up and keep it similar. Personally I would rather they made MPS engine in the ND.

by **Caffeine** » Fri May 04, 2012 10:21 am

Arty wrote:snip pic saying BRZ convertible would be $30k

Assuming that's $30k in the US, where the standard car will be $25k

So probably $10k more expensive than the standard car here in Aus, quite pricy!

Edit : Base model NC is $24k in the US (MSRP)

by **OurCognitiveSurplus** » Wed May 09, 2012 4:35 pm

http://www.caradvice.com.au/163194/toyo ... medium=cpc

Website · by **Guran** » Thu May 10, 2012 10:07 pm

June 2012 issue of Wheels arrived today with the world's first media road test of the 86 compared against a rival car. Other media have done comparisons of BRZ, but this is the first one with the Toyota version. Which rival to test it against? Porsche Cayman. And the 86 was rated by Peter Robinson and Bill Thomas as better than the Porsche, regardless of the massive price difference - $38k est. versus $115k. OK the Cayman is due for a new model very soon, but it's still an amazing testimony.

COTY 2012? Looks like the 86 is a lay down misere.

Cool facts for the 86? Bore = 86mm, Stroke = 86mm, Exhaust diameter =86mm (or 50mm for the BRZ).

by **hamx5ter** » Mon May 14, 2012 8:42 am

Convertible version of toyobaru set to go... bodgy rear end aside, the driving dynamics of this car is going to whip the 5... Mazda better step up..

http://www.nitrobahn.com/news/toyota-gt ... roduction/

Heheheh .... nitrobahn...

by **JBT** » Mon May 14, 2012 8:54 am

Quotes form the link: "According to a report, Toyota is currently working on a convertible version of the GT86/Scion FR-S sports coupe. This new model is going to be competition for the Mazda MX-5."

A report from whom? The cleaner? Someone who used to know the brother of someone who worked at Toyota?
"currently working on" does not = set to go. Nor does it give any indication of the driving dynamics of this as yet non-existent vehicle.

"The debut of this new convertible is expected to be in late 2013 or early 2014." ....if it ever sees the light of day :roll:

by **OurCognitiveSurplus** » Mon May 14, 2012 9:37 am

Making a rag-top makes some sense. Can't be that hard, all the companies seem to chop the top off cars for rag tops.

The question is hwo you position the car. Do you accept that it's going to be less sporty and therefore soften it up as a cruiser and pitch it at that market. Or do you try and keep it sporty and compete with the MX5. I think if I was a marketing guy or a dollars guy at Toyota I'd be inclined to soften it up and pitch it at a different market segment.

by **Apu** » Mon May 14, 2012 9:40 am

Mmm...I'd disagree.

With the size of Toyota, I'd have a good ol' stab at Mazda. They don't really have an MR2 successor now, and the lightweight/affordable convertible segment only has one real player - the MX5. The Honda S2K was not as affordable and is gone now anyway, and the other players are in a whole different price category.

There has to be a market for a newcomer, and the way they have positioned the 86 makes a whole lot of sense.

by **OurCognitiveSurplus** » Mon May 14, 2012 9:55 am

Yeah fair point.

Does anyone know what the MX5 global sales figures are for the last couple of years? The wiki suggests a fairly steady decline since 1998, with a slight bump for the NC... but that didn't last long.

I don't have the numbers, but I'd suspect that there's not a lot of 2011 MX5s in the world. The annual report says 19,000 (http://www.mazda.com/investors/library/ ... 11_06e.pdf) which I suspect is optomistic. Is that a large enough market for the 86 to fight for?

by **Apu** » Mon May 14, 2012 12:08 pm

Well, it's also not so much "is that a big enough market to fight for" because we've got to remember that the market "didn't exist anymore" prior to the MX5.

The NC also got knocked a bit for getting lardy, and by that time, there would have been a lot more prestige convertibles available on the used market.

The MX5 decline can also be pointed towards economic conditions. The MX5 is very much a discretionary purchase, and in the last few years the global market hasn't been great. From that perspective, the timing of the 86 isn't great as the entry of the convertible will probably be at a time when the market is at the bottom of the slump.

Website · by **Guran** » Mon May 14, 2012 2:25 pm

JBT wrote:Quotes form the link: "According to a report, Toyota is currently working on a convertible version of the GT86/Scion FR-S sports coupe. This new model is going to be competition for the Mazda MX-5."

A report from whom? The cleaner? Someone who used to know the brother of someone who worked at Toyota?

This website credits this report which is translated from a report by Autobild in March 2012.

World Car Fans wrote:Speaking with Autobild, Tada said "The GT 86 was designed from the outset [so] that we can build it as a convertible." However, the company hasn't decided on when the car will be launched.
Source: Autobild

Tetsuya Tada is the Chief Engineer for the Toyota 86. I've read this quote in several other places too. eg. GoAuto. It's not exactly news of the minute and there's no statement to the effect that Toyota WILL build a convertible. GoAuto actually broke the news of a potential convertible version in November 2011.

Website · by **Guran** » Mon May 21, 2012 4:12 pm

Guran wrote:Cool facts for the 86? Bore = 86mm, Stroke = 86mm, Exhaust diameter =86mm (or 50mm for the BRZ).

When it became apparent that the engine in the 86/BRZ was a 2.0L flat four from Subaru, I had assumed it would be a revised version of the FB20 used in the Impreza, Forester, etc (84mm bore x 90mm stroke), but slightly bored and shortened to get the 86mm/86mm dimensions. But if this information is to be believed, the 86/BRZ actually uses an FA20 engine that shares little in common with the FB20 engine, with a different block, head, connecting rods, and pistons. Of course, the FA also features direct injection (from Toyota) and variable valve timing. Interesting.

by **aka_juffa** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:30 pm

Well while we debate the pros and cons....our friends on Miata.net are getting their hands on some of these little beauties.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=462773

J.